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When we first heard about Omri, it was the middle of 2020 — peak COVID. Tom from Houzz had reached out, saying, “I have this amazing entrepreneur. He’s a tech genius, one of the co-founders of Dynamic Yield, and maybe he’d be interested in joining you two on your next idea.” Naturally, we looked him up on LinkedIn and thought, “He can’t possibly mean the Omri we’re thinking of.” But it was. And we thought there was no way he’d even take a call with us, let alone consider becoming our co-founder.
Spoiler alert: He did. And the rest is history.
Welcome back to the podcast. This week’s guest is none other than our incredible co-founder at Clay, Omri Mendellevich — who’s aforementioned Dynamic Yield was eventually acquired for a whopping $300M+ by McDonald’s. Our conversation dives deep into the sometime precarious, always fun co-founder dynamics — what works, what doesn’t, and how to navigate the delicate balance of personalities, responsibilities, and challenges.
Finding the right co-founder is a marriage in its own right. But as you’ll hopefully witness in our own dynamic, it’s one of the most rewarding experiences one can have. We’re so thrilled to sit down with Omri and reflect on our journey together as a three-person founding team — read on for the full story.
Lee Rotenberg: I remember when we were first introduced to you, I think it was 2020, right? It was like in the middle of COVID and Tom from Houzz was like, "I have this amazing entrepreneur. He's this tech genius. He was one of the co-founders of Dynamic Yield and maybe he'd be interested in joining you and Alex on your next idea." We looked you up on LinkedIn, and we were like, "She can't be talking about the Omri that we think she's talking about." And then we realized it was the Omri — you — and we're like, "There's no way he's even going to take a call with us. There's no way he's even going to entertain being our co-founder." Alex and I had to play extremely cool to woo you over. And look at us. We became co-founders and had a wild ride. And I'm excited to have this conversation with you and Alex about co-founder dynamics, what works, what doesn't work, what are the lessons we learned from this past journey together as a three co-founder team, but also what are the lessons you learned from your Dynamic Yield days and Alex and I can dive into what it was like in our Ivy days, so really just recapping what makes the relationships with your co-founders are really hard, but also really rewarding. So are you ready?
Omri Mendellevich: I feel like you're gonna make me blush a lot in this episode.
Alex Schinasi: That's the only reason why we have you on Omri, to boost your confidence.
Omri: Well, I'm excited for this podcast and talking to the two of you, whom I love so much. It was quite a journey. In late 2020, I was working at McDonald's, handling tech after the Dynamic Yield acquisition. Tom told me, "You need to talk with Alex and Lee. They have an energy that's just intoxicating." It was the middle of lockdowns, and we were discussing ways to help parents. That really got me excited. In my previous experiences, founders were usually people close to you who spoke the same language. You'd sit in an office or garage, think about a problem, and work on it until it succeeds. But now with COVID, I had one co-founder in Switzerland and one in New York — how would that work? I was very intrigued, and I think that uncertainty became part of the challenge.
Alex: I think a good place to start this whole conversation is actually how does someone even find a co-founder? Where should people even look?
Omri: So when I started my first company, I knew I came from a tech background and I wanted someone more experienced to fill the gaps for me. I think the first step there is to network. It's all about people that you know, not being shy about contacting people and talking about ideas. I wound up going to different meetups, which felt like a really productive way to get introduced to other founders. I went to incubators here in Israel. Eventually I got connected to Liad, who I founded with, through a mutual friend who knew that I was looking. We met at a bar in Tel Aviv and found out we were in apartments right on opposite sides of the street and said, "This is good karma. We need to start this together." I think the whole idea around networking is not being shy about making everyone you know be aware that you're looking to start something up, and those connections just come up.
Lee: How important is it to you if someone who came to you with an idea is like, I want to bring on a co-founder, but I don't want it to be equal? Talk me through the advice you would give a younger entrepreneur.
Omri: That's a tough question, especially around first hires — how much equity to give them, what kind of partnership to create. In my original partnership in Dynamic Yield, since the company was bootstrapped, me and my co-founder were not actually equal partners. I think that the best thing I have to say is: I think it's crucial to eliminate anything around "This guy's opinion is worth more than mine." Even though in Dynamic Yield, Liad had more equity because he put in money when we started the company, I always felt like an equal partner to him. He never let me feel like my opinion was less important.
Alex: It sounds like for it to not make a difference, you need a little bit of that seasonality and experience in order to have it not matter and not impact the relationship.
Omri: I think it's reasonable if someone joins after funding or after a little later stage. And I think there's a lot in the naming. I think you can have 5% of the company, but defined as a founder. And that would be substantial to how you see yourself making the decisions, how much you're involved. Even if the equity is not shared, the responsibility and value add that each one of the team members gives as a founder, you care as a founder, you lose sleep on it as a founder.
Lee: But what you're saying is, when you can, it's equal, right?
Omri: It's just a happier path, right? It makes it easier. At least in the relationship side between the founders.
Alex: And it's not an easy ride. You want to make sure you're reducing any potential tension, any potential conflict that could come down the road because you know that they will come. Walk me through a little bit more on how you met Liad because we obviously all met in a very unusual context in the midst of COVID.
Omri: I think like the idea of meeting Liad was just really good timing. Meeting you two was great timing. If I would have met you two months earlier, that probably wouldn't have happened.
Lee: It's like dating.
Omri: The guy that introduced the two of us, his name is Offer. We ended up doing something completely different, but he came up with this idea that got us excited. And the next day we started drawing stuff up. We didn't know if we'd even need to raise money because it was a quick pass to revenue at the beginning. So we really just hit it off running. A lot of the bureaucracy around this was not even considered. We just started running and I had my limitations. I felt in my end that it's like, obviously there's a lot of risks, but I am getting some salary and I'm learning the ropes and trying something with people that are obviously talented. And I had a lot of respect. Like I didn't even do any background checks. Something in that energy just felt right. And it was a leap of faith.
I think that what was always one of my stronger traits is being able to be a good judge of people and character. So I trust my instincts on this. If I had to give advice to those founders out there, a founder relationship is a lot around the personal relationship. It's literally a marriage. You need that person to be someone you'd be happy to celebrate with and you'd be willing to sacrifice stuff for. And I think you should trust your instincts.
Alex: But it sounds like meeting Liad in this context of sharing the same network, you had people that you knew in common, so did the three of us when we met. So how important is it to meet someone within your network that you can easily vouch? We always talk about the importance of speed, and once you have an idea, let's go try things. And it sounds like that's exactly what you did. It was almost like love at first sight.
Omri: There was a lot of privileges of building companies between the years of 2010 to 2022 that are currently harder, honestly. I think with Liad, it was clear we'd be able to raise money relatively easily because he was like a returning entrepreneur. We knew a lot of the other pieces will fall into place. And with you two, we were all returning founders after successful exits. I think the harsh reality in 2022 and the last two years, which have been obviously hard, is that you need to do a lot more testing and work before you're actually able to raise funds. It's better for companies to work this way. It's just a little bit of a different energy.
Back then, it was harder to get like a demo app or an MVP app. And now it's so much easier. So I'm not like, I'm not feeling entirely sorry for people starting companies today. I'm just saying that in terms of how the partnership formulates and you're able to move, I think that's a crucial point that you need to create. And it's also a great judgment of how the team works. The beginning is like a honeymoon phase. Everyone loves everyone. If you have also money, it's great. You're not worried about what's going to happen tomorrow and who are we going to have to fire. But I think that a really important time to build that relationship, build that trust when everything is happy and everyone's still excited. This is exactly where you want to gain the trust from each other. Liad is a very strong technical guy, but between us, it was clear that I'm doing everything tech. He was doing everything business and sales and product. And once we've built that kind of relationship at the early days, he trusted me so much on everything that we're doing. It was really something that helped us work hand in hand for the next seven to 10 years that we've been at the company together. And I think with you also, you trusted me so much on leading the product and tech in Clay. We're working in tandem. We're not stepping on each other’s feet.
Lee: Virtually, it just felt easy. When we did bring on that other co-founder for that hot minute, the minute we started to negotiate what that co-founder relationship would look like, it was very difficult. That should have been our red flag. You kind of know when it's working.
Alex: Another important takeaway is not to get seduced by a certain degree or a certain title. I think a lot of the mistakes I hear in co-founder dynamic is people teaming up with someone who has this big resume, but there's no relationship, there's no dynamic. And I think so much of our success is the love that we have for each other. And I think like you said, so much comes from the gut, Omri.
Lee: Any co-founders get into disagreements and some of them would be very heated. When you advise other founders around those tricky conversations, what are those lessons you've taken from both the relationship with us as well as with Liad at Dynamic Yield? And be honest, don't lie. We can handle the truth.
Omri: I think arguments between founders is a very important process in the way the company evolves. Everyone having the same opinion or not arguing about anything isn’t reasonable. One of the key aspects that I think are part of the founder role is the accountability. Whatever is being decided as a group of founders, you're accountable to it. You want to be able to treat this as your own decision. You want to keep on challenging each other, like a startup, especially within the founder ecosystem. And I think when the startup grows and you have other key stakeholders, they all need to be included in this decision process. You want to hire an executive team that will challenge you and say yes to anything that you bring. But it needs to be done with respect and trust. And I've worked with a lot of super talented people that just didn't know how to fight. They would either storm out of the room and shut the door or yell at other people. They didn't have like the emotional intelligence to handle those fights in a certain way. Lee and I fought a lot around a lot of different things. And sometimes it really pissed Alex off, bu I think one of the things that I always look back at was the goal was to get to a decision. It was always with the product and our customers in mind. And not a passion for fighting or ego. I respect that. I will never be angry with someone who fights with me over something that they care about. And Lee is always right.
Alex: Never forget that.
Lee: No, no. But I also think we always fought with respect and love for each other. That was very key to our disagreements, and why we could still love each other. When we'd get really heated and yell at each other and say things we probably didn't want to say, we'd always call each other back five minutes later and be like, Omri, I love you. We'd always never cross this line that you couldn't come back from. When people ask me about how have you worked with Alex for so many years, I often say that even when we really get angry at each other, there's this line that we don't cross. And in a sense, it's kind of like being married, right? You get angry at your spouse, but there's a line that you just don't cross because you respect them.
Alex: And I think it's just a testament to how much we all care about the company at the end of the day. Like you said, Omri, the reason for the argument to begin with is because we're so passionate and we're all so determined on making it successful. And this is what brings up all these opinions. So in a way, it's for everyone to get aligned.
Omri: Yeah. If I had to take a note for founders who are trying to manage through, this is where you can definitely use external help. I think one of the things that we've done successfully in the past is trying to involve more people in the discussion, but not necessarily people from within the company. So I always tell that all my success is attributed to my wife, Michelle. And I found myself in a lot of times when I'm having this crazy arguments with Lee or with Liad or with other people in the company. Having that person that helps you calm you down, walk you through the process, take Lee's side, and try to convince you in different terms.
But I think being able to also not be shy about your disagreements and talk with people that you trust or to help you, I think that's also important. At the end of the day, if you fight all the time, that's not healthy. There's something usually that's deeper. Don't be shy asking for help and trying to mitigate. Like this relationship is so important. It's so important not to lose the trust, not to lose the love.
Lee: Do you ever recommend to founders about being a solo entrepreneur, versus a duo or trio?
Omri: I don't know. I've done duo and trio. Those both worked well. I think in both cases have obviously have their upsides and downsides. The benefits of a trio is the ability to have someone that mitigates, or someone becomes the voice of reason within the process.
Lee: Of course.
Omri: I think solo entrepreneurship is extremely difficult. You need so much help and honestly, people don't really appreciate all the way how hard entrepreneurship is and how much you bring back home and what it does to your mental health. So I think sharing that load with more people is crucial. I will bow down to any solo entrepreneur, but really suggest anyone to get a partner. As a team, you'll most likely just work better. You'd be able to lean on each other in a better way, and that would help dramatically.
With three, you always have the fear of two. I have a friend who joined two other co-founders, which were really good friends. And I was like telling him, hey, yeah, it worked great for me. And it ended up really bad for him. They talked behind his back and he ended up coming out really wounded from that relationship. So especially if you're teaming up with a duo as a third co-founder, you need to be able to create and trust the fact that they're your partners.
Alex: Now that you've had so much experience with different types of dynamics, what would you say are the top three traits that you think any co-founder should have?
Omri: I'll be cliche and say trust first. But I would say this for almost every position in a startup. I think the reason why I interviewed every new Dynamic Yield employee until we were over 150 people is that Liad and I tried to push trust in the connection. We want to be able to trust each and every one of the people that we hire, that they'll be true to our mission and would fit what we want as a culture. That goes without saying that that's the most important thing for co-founders.
Second thing is really good division of responsibilities. I think when it's unclear who's making decisions on certain parts, that will induce more fights and will essentially bring up trust issues again. I trust Alex to have the best marketing decision making.
What other traits? I would say listener. I think we all need a certain level of charisma being co-founders. You need to be able to lead a company. I believe in leadership through listening. It's not as important to say what you want as much as to listen to what others saying and try to act upon that. So I think that's really important with founders because it allows you to make just smarter decisions. And a lot of us are not doing that as an instinct.
Lee: Are there any specific exercises that you would run with a potential co-founder match to see if this is the right person?
Omri: I've not interviewed co-founders as the goal of being a co-founder. Even the first conversation with you, it was not in the instinct of being a founder. It was conversation dynamics. Entrepreneurs talking to me the same way that I did with you really early on, just talking about ideas, you kind of see how this person talks and how much he listens and lets you say. And that will really help you understand how that relationship is going to be going forward. You want someone that not only talks, but also listens to you and someone that you will be willing to follow. Even if one is the CEO and one is the CTO. Us CTOs are usually a little bit more on the quiet side and less on the sales side. I think something in that relationship that you want to build is that the CEO can follow the CTO and the CTO talks about tech and excitement about what they're building. The tech person needs to feel like the CEO understands, he respects it. Those are all the little things that you need to pay attention to when you're talking with your co-founder.
Lee: And what about when you have a very big decision to make and you don't see eye to eye on it? How do you get to a point where a decision can be made?
Omri: I think at the end of the day, the company has a CEO and that CEO needs to call the final shot. And I think that you need to respect that as a team. Even if you're like seven founders. And I think it's important to have that stated. Even if you're equal founders, the CEO makes the final decision. You need to choose your battles.
Those red lines are important. It's important to decide them and talk about them as a team. Like as a team, when you're building the company and you're making those decisions, it's entirely legitimate to talk about what are the red lines. Let's say in Clay, we decide to sell our data in order to make a buck. I would have stood on my back feet and said, no way and I'm not going to build this and it's not going to happen. But I was smart enough to found the company with two co-founders that were in the same mindset. And those are exactly the things that you talk about when you found a company. So I think it's important to set those borders and guidelines at the beginning, especially since the company keeps on changing.
Lee: I mean, so far this has been amazing. Omri, you are so good. Like you really are just so good. So tell us how having a co-founder relationship is different than having a life partner, a wife or husband. For real, what have you learned?
Omri: It's different in a lot of ways. There are no kids. I think a successful relationship between founders can happen even if there's no like real emotional connection or they are not good friends. They're their work partners. They won't talk after work. They have a separation and I think it can work, a lot of good companies can succeed with that. Especially after after a lot of years that you've been together, and then you become a manager of hundreds of people you change and and that's perfectly fine.
In a couple, it's different. It always needs to be close. It always needs to work to maintain that emotional connection. There's also a lot more at stake, at least for me. I think that even when you look at it... founders leave. It happens sometimes. With a relationship, you don't have that privilege.
Lee: Yeah, I mean, Michelle's amazing. Michelle, if you're listening, we are so impressed that you put up with Omri.
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